Author Topic: Happy BirthdayAndyb!  (Read 19160 times)

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bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #20 on: Monday April 21, 2008, 07:30:38 PM »
I see! Thanks for that. Now the engine itself, it is the same colour as the one i went on with my mother in 1954, and I remember being told it was the flying scotsman, would it have been that engine at that time. It was a green engine too.
bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #21 on: Monday April 21, 2008, 09:25:31 PM »
Of course, The East Coast Main Line isn't the only place you'll find trains named.

There is still The Master Cutler service, originally between Sheffield and London, but the southbound journey now starts further north at Leeds, I belive.

I also have vague recollections of a train called "The White Rose", although I can't remember exactly where it ran (except into London, of course...) Possibly York?? I seem to recall that today, the specific train is actually formed of the same type of train used on Eurostar services.

There's something for me to google when I get a few moments.. :D

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #22 on: Monday April 21, 2008, 09:51:08 PM »
I see! Thanks for that. Now the engine itself, it is the same colour as the one i went on with my mother in 1954, and I remember being told it was the flying scotsman, would it have been that engine at that time. It was a green engine too.
bunnie

So far as I know, Bunnie, the LNER A3 class (formerly A1 class) of which locomotive 4472 'Flying Scotsman' is a member, was always painted green - but then so were so many other engines.

Before 1948, when Nationalisation of the railway companies took place and British Railways (BR) was born, the standard livery of the London & North Eastern Railway (LNER) express passenger locos was 'Darlington Green' - or Apple Green - with white pinstripe lining on the boiler. Goods/Freight locos were generally painted black. There were exceptions, for example when the streamlined A4 class were introduced (of which class the world steam speed record holder 'Mallard' is a member) some were painted Garter Blue, whilst other A4s were also painted silver grey.

Following nationalisation of the various railway companies in 1948, Brunswick Green (based on the Great Western company's livery) was adopted as the BR standard colour for express passenger engines (although once again there were exceptions) - so, 'Yes' it's possible that it was the 'Flying Scotsman' loco that hauled your train - but it could equally have been one of a large number of other express passenger engines - remember there were 79 locos in the A3 class alone.

andyb
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Offline andyb

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #23 on: Monday April 21, 2008, 11:01:29 PM »
Of course, The East Coast Main Line isn't the only place you'll find trains named.

There is still The Master Cutler service, originally between Sheffield and London, but the southbound journey now starts further north at Leeds, I belive.

I also have vague recollections of a train called "The White Rose", although I can't remember exactly where it ran (except into London, of course...) Possibly York?? I seem to recall that today, the specific train is actually formed of the same type of train used on Eurostar services.

There's something for me to google when I get a few moments.. :D

Matt

Well now. Matt - you've brought some memories back.

I remember trainspotting at Bristol Temple Meads station back in the late 60's and early 70's and you've reminded me that we had named trains in those days too.

One's that spring to mind include The Bristolian running from Bristol to London Paddington twice a day;
The Devonian which ran from Bristol to Bradford (may have carried on to Newcastle?)
The Cornishman - from Wolverhampton to Penzance
The Bristol Pullman also running from Bristol to London Paddington using the luxury Metro-Camell Blue Pullman sets (I've got a model of this somewhere).

I also remember a Railway Society trip to Finsbury Park to watch one of the last Deltic-hauled Hull Executive expresses come through (1982 I think - I've got a photo somewhere), and also catching The Fenman from London Liverpool Street station when we lived in Cambridge.

One of my favourite British Transport Films is The Elizabethan which follows the express up the East Coast Main Line from London to Edinburgh - A4 Class loco 'Silver Fox' is the star and a clip can be found on the British Film Institute's Moving History website http://www.movinghistory.ac.uk/archives/bn/films/bn2elizabethan.html (although to my mind this doesn't really show the loco at it's best)

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bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday April 22, 2008, 10:32:28 AM »
Hi andyb that is so interesting! My Grandpa knew about trains, and it was he who had said it was the flying scotsman. I seem to remember too another time going to Edinborough on another train , I think was green also called The Golden Arrow?  I'm not sure but for some reason that sticks in my memory!
Bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday April 22, 2008, 05:08:54 PM »
So sorry I am so ridiculously late andyb, but I hope you had a great birthday.

 :-*  :hugs:

Woo

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday April 22, 2008, 10:16:08 PM »
Hi andyb that is so interesting! My Grandpa knew about trains, and it was he who had said it was the flying scotsman. I seem to remember too another time going to Edinborough on another train , I think was green also called The Golden Arrow?  I'm not sure but for some reason that sticks in my memory!
Bunnie

I'm glad you find this interesting, bunnie - hope the others do too! My maternal Grandfather was a Guard on the LMS Railway, and later, on the Western Region of British Railways.

You're right about the Golden Arrow being green - at least the loco would usually have been green - this was after all a Southern Railway train which had Malachite Green as its main passenger livery. The loco however could have been green or blue depending on which one was hauling the train! (and when - eg the late '40s early '50s saw some experimentation in liveries). In the 50's and early '60's it would usually have been a steam loco of the Lord Nelson class, later on the Merchant Navy class would be seen hauling the heavier trains, and I think it was MN class 'Canadian Pacific' that was painted blue for at least some of its life.

The loco would have a large gold arrow affixed to either side of the boiler with another arrow on the front of the smokebox. See this photo of preserved 257 Squadron dressed up as if in Golden Arrow service:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:34072_257_Squadron.jpg


The carriages on the other hand would most likely have been Pullman carriages - so chocolate and cream for these and each carriage would usually have a name painted on the side - mostly ladies names eg Jane, Mary, Elizabeth etc or from characters in classical mythology eg Orion, Perseus, Minerva etc.

I don't think The Golden Arrow train ever went to Edinburgh - the service, introduced in 1926, was from London to Dover, and for a while, to Folkestone Harbour, to meet the cross-channel ferry from France.

In fact, I understand the original Golden Arrow was actually a French luxury pullman train - the Fleche d'Or - running from Paris to Calais - the UK portion came afterwards. The locos would have both the Union Flag and the Tricoleur decorating the front.

There's a very interesting website dedicated to the history of this. See:
http://www.dover-kent.co.uk/transport/golden_arrow.htm

I've also found a video on Youtube which shows the last passenger train to visit Folkestone Harbour station recently. The harbour line is being closed so the harbour can be re-developed as a marina, but a steam-hauled special had the honour of being the last passenger train to visit the harbour station. The loco is a Southern Railway 'Battle of Britain' class 'Tangmere' (similar to the Merchant Navy class but slightly smaller) and is dressed up in the full Golden Arrow regalia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9nn6ZSrhng

Enjoy!

andyb
« Last Edit: Tuesday April 22, 2008, 10:36:57 PM by andyb »
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bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday April 23, 2008, 12:27:36 PM »
You cant beat them can you? Theyr'e great. I am now totally confused! I have definately been on the Golden arrow and yet after reading the info I cannot think where too! I always thought it was to edinburgh on that train , because I remember writing an essay on it at school! I was about 9 or 10 so that would be around 1957/58. I had never been down South at all at that time, but we did go to Edinburgh on the school trip! Thats where the memory comes from, and how I recalled the name of the train. Isn't that strange? Do you think they could have used that particular train for a one off? Where on earth could I have been to on it, I've racked my brains this morning. We also went to York on another occassion on the train, but there is no info regarding this train on that line. It really is odd, because I remember it so well, and thats how i knew this particular name.
I wonder how I could find out?
Bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday April 23, 2008, 08:43:09 PM »
bunnie,

I just had a thought - the loco wasn't called 'Green Arrow' by any chance?

This would have been LNER V2 class no 4771 (later British Railways No 60800) now preserved at the National Railway Museum?



This one would've gone to Edinburgh....

andyb
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bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #29 on: Thursday April 24, 2008, 07:27:48 AM »
Doesn't that look super! Do you know Andyb it could have of course ,it was so long ago , but where on earth would i get the name from , it's that, that is puzzling me. You may very well be right and I have got it confused with Mary Webbs Book! It certainly looks like the train I must admit. Is it really in a museum? My goodness I feel like an old crock! It looks good anyway!
Thanks for that,at least I know the proper name now.
Bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #30 on: Thursday April 24, 2008, 11:30:11 AM »
This would have been LNER V2 class no 4771 (later British Railways No 60800) now preserved at the National Railway Museum.

And also visited Barrow Hill Roundhouse a while ago, attended by me! It's nice having such things just around the corner. ;D

If I remember correctly, the V2's were known as Baby B1's.

Matt.
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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
The Doppler Effect - Why bad ideas seem good when they are coming towards you at high speed. Don't rush things!!!

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #31 on: Thursday April 24, 2008, 02:05:33 PM »
..
If I remember correctly, the V2's were known as Baby B1's.

Matt.

That may have been the case, Matt - but to my mind they look more like baby A3's. Don't forget they have three cylinders and, although a 2-6-2 rather than the 4-6-2 wheel arrangement of the A3 (or the 4-6-0 of the B1) I think they've got to be one of the best proportioned steam locos ever.

Doesn't that look super! ..It certainly looks like the train I must admit. Is it really in a museum? ..
Bunnie

Actually, it's rather sad, bunnie, but it was announced last month that Green Arrow will probably never steam again due to the extent of repairs needed to her boiler. This is a shame as she was out on the mainline until quite recently hauling excursion trains. I hear it's likely she'll be stuffed and mounted at the railway museum at Darlington. She's the only surviving V2 so there aren't any others to fall back on...

andyb

« Last Edit: Thursday April 24, 2008, 02:08:57 PM by andyb »
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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #32 on: Thursday April 24, 2008, 05:04:23 PM »
..
If I remember correctly, the V2's were known as Baby B1's.

Matt.

That may have been the case, Matt - but to my mind they look more like baby A3's. Don't forget they have three cylinders and, although a 2-6-2 rather than the 4-6-2 wheel arrangement of the A3 (or the 4-6-0 of the B1) I think they've got to be one of the best proportioned steam locos ever.


That's true, although there wasn't an A3 at Barrow Hill to look at for comparison. The complete list was as follows:

In steam:
  • V2' 4771 'Green Arrow'
  • 'B1' 61306 'Mayflower'
  • 'B1' 61264'
  • 'K1' 62005 'Lord of the Isles
  • 'K4' 61994 'Great Marquess'
  • 'N7' 69621
  • 'Peckett' 2000

Locomotives on display:
  • 'A2' 60532 'Blue Peter'
  • 'Jubilee' 45593 'Kolhapur'
  • '1F' 41708
  • 'Director' 506 'Butler-Henderson'

Matt.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
The Doppler Effect - Why bad ideas seem good when they are coming towards you at high speed. Don't rush things!!!

bunnie

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Re: Happy BirthdayAndyb!
« Reply #33 on: Friday April 25, 2008, 12:40:18 PM »
It's such a shame there is just something beautiful about these trains. I had a wonderful trip on the Carlisle -Settle railway, That's why I bought the watercolour, and the train of course was full of steam train boffins, (I say that respectfully) because I can understand the fascination. I will never forget as the train curved around the track on the viaduct itself, and one could see the engine ahead as it curved , steam billowing and this clear drop below, and Woo! Woo! It really was quite thrilling. I cannot tell you how many times we have been on our own beloved La'al Ratty! There are lovely walks too, so you can plan a walk and get on and off at different stations. There's a tiny "church" in an outhouse of one of the old farmhouses, stuck out in the middle of nowhere,on one of these walks, and the door is always open.
Bunnie