Author Topic: Cheesemaking  (Read 44432 times)

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Offline itchychick

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #40 on: Thursday March 29, 2007, 04:38:56 PM »
That sounds yummy, LG.  Is the milk raw or pasteurized?

Offline LIGA girl

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #41 on: Thursday March 29, 2007, 08:58:42 PM »
The milk is raw, itchy, which is part of the reason for its success I think. I am going to buy some pasteurised goat milk and make some cheese from it to compare, though. Apparently french goat chese makers prefer raw milk and use only it, but here there are strict regulations about that sort of thing and my cheese is actually illegal!

Offline LIGA girl

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #42 on: Friday March 30, 2007, 04:59:34 AM »
Today I went on an undercover fact finding mission to a local cafe  8)

I tried not to attract too much attention in my dark glasses, trench coat and thick Russian accent. My partner, middle aged surfie dressed in Billabong clothes, and I made an incongruous couple.

We checked out the breakfast menu. There was a goat cheese dish on it - mushrooms with goat cheese and herbs on bruschetta - grossly overpriced of course. We did not have time to order a full breakfast so settled for lattes and slice. Will return at a later date to sample lunchtime menu and will order goat cheese dishes from that to suss out competition products. :evil:

Offline itchychick

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #43 on: Friday March 30, 2007, 03:39:33 PM »
 :lol:  I'm sure you were a charming couple!  (I love Russian accents ;) ;D_

Offline anthropositor

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #44 on: Friday March 30, 2007, 05:09:22 PM »
Lately I havent been making much cheese but I have been blending or laminating quite a variety of different international cheeses.  They go very well with my wines.  Just a cornucopia of tastes.
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Offline LIGA girl

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #45 on: Saturday March 31, 2007, 04:00:55 AM »
(I love Russian accents ;) ;D_

Ve cannort be too coorshious ven ve vunt to seek out furzer infoormashon wregarding zees matters ...  I cun ornly horp I deed nort awrouze zeer suspicions .....;D


Offline itchychick

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #46 on: Saturday March 31, 2007, 06:07:32 AM »
 ; :lol:

Offline anthropositor

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #47 on: Saturday March 31, 2007, 10:34:54 AM »
I just found 2/3 kilo of chevre for $3.75!  It would cost me about $12 to produce 24 ounces of goat cheese at home.  And that does not even count my time.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." Chinese Proverb.

"What all men speak well of, look critically into; what all men condemn examine first before you decide"-- Confucius

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Offline LIGA girl

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #48 on: Saturday March 31, 2007, 03:26:21 PM »
What is the standard of it like, Anthro? It sounds amazingly cheap! Here, 110g of French chevre costs about AU$6, which makes it nearly $60 per kilo, and I also found a locally made one for $40 per kilo. The French ones are the only ones worth buying in my opinion .... the local stuff is pretty awful

Offline anthropositor

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #49 on: Saturday March 31, 2007, 05:14:36 PM »
Hi LG,
Here in my neighborhood I can often get plain Chevre for $7 or $8 per pound but I would guess that the real average price is closer to $12 or $14 per pound, about my material cost to produce it at home.  The cheap cheese I just got was imported from a strange land, probably Illinois or Wisconsen.
« Last Edit: Sunday April 01, 2007, 02:59:04 PM by anthropositor »
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." Chinese Proverb.

"What all men speak well of, look critically into; what all men condemn examine first before you decide"-- Confucius

Pray to the Gods, for the Gods are not unless you pray to them.--Don Marquis

Offline LIGA girl

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #50 on: Sunday April 01, 2007, 07:42:42 AM »
Well, I get my goats milk very cheaply... I get about 9 litres for AU$10 and that makes about 2 kilos of cheese. I am currently getting enough milk to make 4 kilos ( about 9 lbs) of cheese a week, far too much for my consumption of course. So I give the excess away, which is why I would prefer to be able to sell it. The milk has not been pasteurised which gives the cheese a wonderful quality and flavour. I wish you could taste it as everyone raves about it when they try it. I'm going to try making one that is flavoured with just fresh organic basil from my garden as the basil flavour seems to go well with goat cheese.

Offline anthropositor

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #51 on: Sunday April 01, 2007, 03:27:18 PM »
Oh, and as to the flavor as compared to imported varieties, I don't know what to say.  It may not be entirely fair to make such comparisons.  The American tastes in cheese tend to run milder it seems to me.  Therefore, we are not exposed to the full range of European cheeses for example. 

I know many Americans only eat pasteurized cheese food products on spongy industrial white bread.  The domestic swiss cheeses seem to work out for me pretty well but that is because my taste too tends to run toward the mild.  For those looking for stronger flavors maybe Europe is the way to go.  A lot of the really sharp varieties don't get over here except in a few specialty stores.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it." Chinese Proverb.

"What all men speak well of, look critically into; what all men condemn examine first before you decide"-- Confucius

Pray to the Gods, for the Gods are not unless you pray to them.--Don Marquis

Offline M@t

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #52 on: Sunday April 01, 2007, 04:18:11 PM »
All, sorry to but in, but I had to add a bit about cheeses in the UK.

There's a nice variety about called Danish Blue. Its a creamy/crumbly cheese with very strong flavoured blue veins running through it. Nice on a cracker. Then there's good old Stilton. Still has the veins. Nice on crackers with a glass of red wine. My personal favourite is an applewood smoked strong cheddar though. The texture is perfect, and the flavour is just right.

I recently went over to Belgium, and the array of cheeses on the breakfast bar was OK for the style of the hotel. I had to try them all, of course, and none of them were even remotely strong. Maybe the Belgians prefer it a bit milder.

Matt.


« Last Edit: Sunday April 01, 2007, 04:21:49 PM by MattC1981 »
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Offline LIGA girl

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #53 on: Sunday April 01, 2007, 09:13:53 PM »
Good to have you on the thread Matt. Welcome!

It is interesting to compare what is preferred in different countries.  I think most Australians would fall into the same category of cheese eaters as Americans you describe Anthro.

From my stays in Europe, I have noticed that Europeans prefer more mild and subtle flavours, and also a variety of ageing in their cheeses. Most of ours here are aged cheeses, soft and fresh are not as preferred, which is why chevre is a refreshing change, it is a fresh cheese, eaten within a few weeks.

My goats cheese is closer to chevre than any other. The fresh curd is also good and can be eaten in place of ice cream. Most Aussies would not have eaten curds or even know what they are. These fresher cheeses are more subtle in their flavours which is why it is good to try them to notice those differences in flavour. Last time I stayed in Italy, when my sister lived there, it was very popular to eat Buffalo mozzarella, small fresh mozzarella cheeses in brine. They had a distinctive texture which I enjoyed.

We have blue cheeses here too and I have always liked them, though now I am not eating dairy products. Many people here find them too strong.

If you are into wine, I urge you to try some Australian wine too. You will notice the difference in flavour from European wines ( I have never tried American wine).  I think it is the difference in the soil (ours has only been cultivated for a relatively short amount of time).

I am not a big connoisseur of cheeses as I have said before. But I am enjoying comparisons due to the goats cheese I am making and perfecting.  ;D

Offline anthropositor

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #54 on: Sunday April 01, 2007, 09:31:32 PM »
I am quite fond of the Cabernets and Merlots from the Barrossa Valley of Australia.  I used to buy them by the case.  Now that I ferment my own, I may buy only two or three bottles of Australian wine a year.
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Offline M@t

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #55 on: Sunday April 01, 2007, 09:37:12 PM »
Jacobs Creek and Oxford Landing are the two that I know of...

I especially liked the Oxford Landing though... Got a bottle as a bonus one month when I worked in the pub...

As for cheese, Brits seem to like stronger cheese. There certainly seem to be more strong cheese on offer at the super markets these days.

Matt.
« Last Edit: Sunday April 01, 2007, 09:39:00 PM by MattC1981 »
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap
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The Doppler Effect - Why bad ideas seem good when they are coming towards you at high speed. Don't rush things!!!

Offline itchychick

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #56 on: Sunday April 01, 2007, 11:47:38 PM »
Given the North American fear of bacteria of any type is so wide reaching, the pasteurization of cheeses along with the large scale "industrial" cheese making tends to promote blander cheeses,

Interestingly, here in Canada we have a vibrant artisanal cheese making community, but even more interesting is that it is mostly based in Quebec, the french-speaking province.  I have noticed that in general, the raw milk cheeses tend to have more complex flavours, with unusual overtones of taste, and aftertastes that linger.  Some are strong, but I think that is more to do with how long a cheese has been aged. 

I am very lucky here, as my local cheese monger is a bit of an international authority on cheese.  Just yesterday he was inducted into a French order of Chevalier (knight) for contribution to the world of cheese (I'm not kidding... there were even knights on horseback there for the ceremony, and some bigwigs from France to knight him and a few very well respected restaurateurs.)

I think almost all cheese making countries have one standout (at least).  While I love the Italian buffalo milk mozzarella, I think Parmigiano Reggiano is my favourite.  And yes, I have to agree with Matt that applewood smoked cheddar is fantastic....  When my husband and I honeymooned in France, we stayed at a very luxurious inn about an hour south of Paris.  For the cheese course, the waiter wheeled out a three level trolley that was just laden with locally produced  (within 10 miles) cheese.  There must have been 30 different types from that area alone!

Time for dinner.  I've made myself hungry.

Offline LIGA girl

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #57 on: Tuesday April 03, 2007, 02:57:39 AM »
Great that some of you have tried our wines. The region where I live is the Hunter Valley and not as long established a winemaking area as Barossa, but still a strong starter in the Aussie wine making picture. Some of our wineries are Draytons, Pokolbin, Rothbury, Mountview as well as many others

Itchy, how do the artisans distribute their cheeses in your area? Do they have a web presence that I could look at? I cant get into the proper production of legal cheese and dont want to, but I enjoy making it on a small scale and if I were able to sell it without infringing any laws, I would be really happy to do that. Unpasteurised cheese is a much more flavoursome product I agree. I am finding that French trained chefs are much more keen on my cheese as they have an appreciation of the better flavour. That's exciting about the cheese maker in your region!

Yesterday I tried a goat cheese dish at a local cafe and it was grossly inferior to what I can make .... tho still quite tasty. I think the quality of the cheese is also related to the quality of the milk and I am lucky in that respect to be able to get good quality milk that is fresh.

I'm going to make a goat cheese tart for dinner I think ....

Offline itchychick

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #58 on: Tuesday April 03, 2007, 02:06:09 PM »
Hi LG,
I'm not entirely sure how the distribution system works, but my impression is that the high end chefs develop personal relationships with cheesemakers, meat suppliers, etc.   Because I'm in such a big city, there are several places you can go to get just about any cheese you can imagine, both imported and domestic, but most of the upscale restaurants tend to showcase domestic artisanal cheeses.

This is the website of the my local cheese shop, and there seem to be some interesting links... Check out the link to Toronto Life magazine:  it is a really interesting biographical profile of the owner and the business, and it mentions the ageing cave they have at the store (near the end of the article). I suppose you could always send them an email if you have specific questions.
http://www.cheeseboutique.com/
« Last Edit: Tuesday April 03, 2007, 02:18:29 PM by itchychick »

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Re: Cheesemaking
« Reply #59 on: Tuesday April 03, 2007, 07:11:28 PM »
Thanks for that link Itchy. I'll have a more detailed read of it. It seems though that where you are there is more demand for good cheeses and less worry about laws regulating them than here.... I need to  investigate further.