The Vitamin C thread

[Alohamora]

I started talking about vitamin C on the flu and allergy threads, but there are so many reputed uses for Vitamin C in health that I though it might be nice to have one place to talk about all the different issues.

Ascorbic acid ( vitamin C) is supposed to be good for so many different issues it starts to sound like a modern day snake oil -- until you read about role of the ascorbic molecule in our bodies, and then it all starts to make sense and sound plausible.

I have a few articles I want to post and maybe get some discussion going. 

I have no product to sell nor do I have a web site to promote, I'm doing this just for my own education. And if this is even half as important as I think it might be, maybe it will help a few other people too.

[Alohamora]

VITAMIN C:


HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?


By Patrick Holford


Most Animals Produce The Equivalent Of 3 to 15 Grams of Vitamin C Every Day


 Vitamin C isn't a vitamin at all. It isn't a necessary component of diet, at least for all mammals with the exception of guinea pigs, fruit eating bats, the red vented bulbul bird and primates - which includes us. All other species make their own.

This they do by converting glucuronic acid derived from glucose into ascorbic acid (C6H8O6). Three enzymes are required to make this conversion. One of these enzymes, or part of the enzyme system, is missing in primates. Irwin Stone proposed, in 1965, that a negative mutation may have occurred in these species so as to lose the ability to produce vitamin C. In primates this is thought to have occurred in the region of 25 million years ago.

Mutations can and frequently do occur in nature. Only those that put a species at advantage at the time tend to become dominant. Unfortunately, reversing such mutations is highly unlikely to occur. Unlike other vitamins, vitamin C is required in large amounts which could only be supplied by a tropical diet high in fruit and other vegetation. if sufficient vitamin C could be obtained from such a diet the quantity of glucose normally used to synthesize vitamin C could be channeled towards energy production. This could conceivably have been an advantage for primates or other species.

This advantage may have come at a price. Dr. Jungblut, an early pioneer of vitamin C therapy in the 1930's, discovered that only us primates and guinea pigs were susceptible to scurvy as well as anaphylactic shock, pulmonary tuberculosis, diptheritic intoxication, a poliomyelitis-like viral infection and a viral form of leukemia. None of the vitamin C synthesizing laboratory animals had susceptibility to these diseases. This is perhaps one of the first observations that led to the idea that susceptibility to viral infections could be a consequence of vitamin C deficiency. Could humanity's history of disease - endemic infections, plagues and more recently cancer and heart disease - be the result of our inability to produce vitamin C and our inability to obtain it from the food we eat?


Vitamin C produced per day by different animal species
(equivalent for 70 Kg Man)

Goat  2,280 - 13,300 mg 
Rat  2,737 - 13,902 mg 
Rabbit  1,547 - 15,820 mg 
Cow  1,099 - 1,281 mg 
Mouse  2,352 - 19,250 mg 
Sheep  1,736 mg 
Cat  336 - 2,800 mg 

More than 50% of People Require Over 2,500 mg to Reach Maximum Absorption

Vitamin C is One of the Least Toxic Substances Known to Man  The fact that almost all species continue to make vitamin C suggests that the amount of vitamin C generally available from diet is not enough for optimum nutrition except in exceptional circumstances such as a tropical environment. The chart above shows the average amount produced by each animal, adjusted to an equivalent body weight for Man. Under normal circumstances the daily amount produced, adjusted for comparison to a 70 kg man, is somewhere between 3,000 mg and 15,000 mg, with an average of 5,400 mg.
Species of monkeys, such as the squirrel monkey, require an equivalent of 2,000 mg a day to maintain health and up to 1000 mg a day to maintain blood levels found in the wild. Animals produce variable amounts depending on their circumstances. Under conditions of stress or infection synthesis can easily quadruple. Some primates appear to require up to 2,800 mg a day equivalent to survive the long-term stresses of captivity, while guinea pigs require 3,000 mg per day to recover from anesthesia.

What about us? While a mere 60 mg a day can prevent scurvy, the deficiency disease first identified by Dr. James Lind in 1753, it would be illogical to assume that this is the optimal dose. A survey of doctors in the US found that those who were healthiest consumed at least 250 mg of vitamin C per day. A recent survey has shown that a person's vitamin status is a good predictor of their mortality risk. High blood vitamin C levels indicate a low risk for cardiovascular disease and certain types of cancer and other immune based diseases. Optimal intakes to reduce risk of such conditions would appear to be at least 500 mg per day.

Expensive Urine?
But aren't you simply making expensive urine when you take large amounts of supplements? Dr. Michael Colgan investigated this often made rebuttal. He investigated how much vitamin C we use by giving increasing daily doses and measuring excretion. "Only a quarter of our subjects reached their vitamin C maximum at 1,500 mg a day. More than half required over 2,500 mg a day to reach a level where their bodies could use no more. Four subjects did not reach their maximum at 5,000 mg." Increasing vitamin C intake from 50 mg to 500 mg tends to double serum vitamin C levels. Increasing intake to 5,000 mg a day will double serum levels again. Expensive urine? Vitamin C protects the bowel, kidneys and bladder on the way out. As Dr. Michael Colgan points out the average victim of bowel or bladder cancer spends $26,000 for treatment - mostly to no avail.
While it is valid to infer from this brief history of evolution, a comparison with other species, and average excretion rates that optimal vitamin C levels are probably above 1,000 mg with plenty of room for individual variation,what about 'hard evidence'? What levels are required to ensure maximum function of enzymes and body systems dependent on vitamin C? A quick review of some of vitamin C's hundreds of biochemical roles will help us here. Vitamin C is required for the synthesis of collagen. Our intercellular glue that keeps skin, lungs, arteries, the digestive tract and all organs intact. It is a potent anti-oxidant protecting against free radicals, pollution, carcinogens, heavy metals, and other toxins. It is strongly anti-viral and mildly anti-bacterial. Energy cannot be made in any cell, brain or muscle without adequate vitamin C. The adrenal glands have a high concentration of vitamin C which is essential for stress hormone synthesis. Vitamin C is so central in so many chemical reactions in the body that,without it, life is simply not possible.

Are Western Killer Diseases Symptoms of a Vitamin C Deficiency?
The immune system depends on having healthy immune cells and associate molecules such as antibodies. Vitamin C is essential for both. Antibody production increases on supplementing 1 gram of vitamin C. It is also needed for interferon, complement, and prostaglandin production, and is essential for the proper function of immune cells such as lymphocytes and leukocytes. A recent study showed, in the test tube, that vitamin C can even inactivate the HIV virus.
Thanks to the work of Linus Pauling and coworkers we know that 10 grams of vitamin C doubles the life expectancy of cancer patients, and, in some cases effects a complete cure. Its role is even more pivotal in cardiovascular disease, which is now being postulated as the long-term consequence of vitamin C deficiency. Just about every marker of cardiovascular disease, arterial damage, high blood cholesterol levels, low HDL levels, high levels of oxidized cholesterol, thick blood are all improved by adequate vitamin C intake at levels up to 10 grams a day. Vitamin C increases resistance to stress, lessens allergic reactions, helps arthritic conditions, slows down the aging process and improves energy production. Beneficial effects of vitamin C in human trials tend to increase with the amount given up to, and above, 10 grams per day. On the basis of research into vitamin C's effect on disease states it would appear that an intake of somewhere between 1 and 10 grams may be optimal simply for maintaining optimal function of the immune, endocrine and cardiovascular system.

How Much Is Too Much?
Dr. Robert Cathcart believes the ideal intake for any individual is the highest level they can tolerate without loose bowels. On the basis of his experience with 11,000 patients over 14 years this bowel tolerance level may be 10 to 15 grams in a healthy person, 30 to 60 grams in a person with a cold, and over 199 grams per day in a person with a serious infectious illness. During an infectious illness the best clinical results have been achieved by maintaining high vitamin C levels in the blood through 3 or more grams every four hours.
Fortunately, vitamin C is one of the least toxic substances known to man. Four studies gave 10 grams of vitamin C to over 3000 patients without a single reported incidence of toxicity. Other than the bowels there has not been one single case of toxicity resulting from taking vitamin C supplements, despite unfounded reports of potential risk for kidney stones, raising blood uric acid levels, or 'rebound' scurvy. It is unlikely that any vitamin has been tested to such an extent for toxicity and it is safe to assume that supplemental levels of at least 10 grams a day, or up to bowel tolerance, are completely safe.

WHAT IS OPTIMUM
Whichever way you look at it the figures come out in the same ballpark. The optimum intake is likely to be in the region of 1,000 mg (1 gram) to 10,000 mg (10 grams) per day, If you are in the grips of cardiovascular disease, an infectious or immune system disease, or cancer the ideal level may be much higher. If you drink excessive amounts of alcohol, live in a polluted city, have a stressful lifestyle, take drugs including aspirin, or smoke, your optimal intake will again be raised. An intake of 200 to 300 mg of vitamin C per day is required to raise the average smoker's vitamin C level to that of a non-smoker. An intake of around 50 mg per cigarette probably affords maximum protection.
Albert Szent Gyorgi, who isolated vitamin C in 1928, recommends 1 gram daily. Dr. Michael Colgan takes 5 grams daily. Dr. Linus Pauling takes 10 to 18 grams daily. I take 5 grams daily on top of a diet rich in food sources of vitamin C. The choice is yours.
 
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/mega_1_1.html

[Alohamora]

C and heart disease

The Cure for Heart Disease: Condensed

By Owen R. Fonorow, Copyright 2004

'READER'S DIGEST' VERSION

Cardiovascular Diseases Those few species that fail to synthesize ascorbic acid (vitamin C) are prone to a form of ‘heart disease’ that is not prevalent in other species. The theory that Cardiovascular Disease (CVD) is related to a deficiency of vitamin C was first proposed by the Canadian physician G. C. Willis in 1953. He found that atherosclerotic plaques form over vitamin-C-starved vascular tissues in both guinea pigs and human beings. In 1989, after the discoveries of the Lp(a) cholesterol molecule (circa 1964) and its lysine binding sites (circa 1987), Linus Pauling and his associate Matthias Rath formulated a unified theory of heart disease and invented a cure. Vitamin C and lysine (and proline) in large amounts become Lp(a) binding inhibitors that restore vascular health and are patented to destroy atherosclerotic plaques.

Chronic scurvy. Heart disease is a misnomer; the underlying disease process reduces the supply of blood to the heart and other organs leading to angina ("heart cramp"), heart attack and stroke. The disease is characterized by scab-like build-ups that grow on the walls of blood vessels. The correct terminology for this disease process is chronic scurvy, a slower form of the classic vitamin C deficiency disease.

The hypothesis that CVD is an ascorbic acid (vitamin C) deficiency disease was first conceived and tested in Canada. Willis devised a method of photographing plaques with X-rays and observed that atherosclerotic plaques were not uniformly distributed throughout the vascular system; rather these "blockages" are concentrated near the heart, where arteries are constantly bent or squeezed.

Another Canadian, Paterson, had found that the tissues of heart patients were generally depleted of vitamin C, and it was well known that vitamin C is required for strong and healthy arteries. Willis reasoned that only the mechanical stress caused by the pulse could explain the typical pattern of atherosclerosis. To Willis, the body was laying down plaque precisely where it was needed in order to stabilize the vascular system.

By the late 1980s, medical researchers had made several intriguing discoveries.

remainder of the article and full protocol for prevention here: http://www.thecureforheartdisease.com/owen/HeartCureRD.htm

[Alohamora]

Linus Pauling in a 1994 interview on heart disease and vitamin C

Q Now you are recommending vitamin C and lysine for the treatment of cardiovascular disease.
How exactly does lysine help to prevent cardiovascular disease?

Many investigators contributed to showing that lipoprotein A is what is deposited in plaques, not just LDL, but lipoprotein A. If you have more than 20mg/dI in your blood it begins depositing plaques and atherosclerosis so the question then is what causes lipoprotein A to stick to the wall of the artery and cause these plaques? Well countless biochemists and other chemists are pretty smart people and they discovered what it is in the wall of the artery that causes lipoprotein A to get stuck to the wall of the artery and form atherosclerotic plaques and ultimately lead to heart disease, strokes and peripheral arterial disease. The answer is there is a particular amino acid in a protein in the wall of the artery - lysine, which is one of the twenty amino acids that binds the lipoprotein A and causes atherosclerotic plaques to develop. I think it is a very important discovery.

Well, now, if you know that there are residues of lysine, lysyl residues, that hold the lipoprotein A to the wall of the artery and cause hardening of the arteries, then any chemist, any physical chemist would say at once that the thing to do is to prevent that by puffing the amino acid lysine in the blood to greater extent than is normally. Of course you get lysine normally in your food. Meat in particular contains a good bit of lysine. And you need lysine to be alive, it is an essential amino acid, you have to get about a gram a day to keep in protein balance, but you can take lysine, pure lysine, a perfectly non toxic substance in food, as 500mg tablets and that puts extra lysine molecules in the blood. They enter into competition with the lysyl residues on the wall of artery and accordingly count to prevent the lipoproteinA from being deposited or even will work to pull it loose and destroy the atherosclerotic plaques.

Q Do you think the treatment of lysine and vitamin C can reverse the atherosclerotic process?

I think so. Yes. Now I've got to the point where I think we can get almost complete control of cardiovascular disease, heart attacks and strokes by the proper use of vitamin C and lysine. It can prevent cardiovascular disease and even cure it. If you are at risk of heart disease, or if there is a history of heart disease in your family, if your father or other members of the family died of a heart attack or stroke or whatever, or if you have a mild heart attack yourself then you had better be taking vitamin. C and lysine.

http://www.thecureforheartdisease.com/pauling/lastpinv.html

[Alohamora]

Favorable effect of
vitamin C on osteoarthritis

In the Framingham Osteoarthritis Cohort Study it has been determined that in people with osteoarthritis in the knee, an increased intake of vitamin C is accompanied by a significantly lower risk of a progression of the disorder.

Persons with a higher vitamin-C consumption proved also to have a reduced risk of deleveloping knee pain.

Protection by antioxidants
This research was based on the hypothesis that reactive oxygen species play an important part in the development of osteoarthritis and that nutritional antioxidants, such as vitamin C, vitamin E and beta carotene, can protect against this process. The trial was conducted by a retrospective analysis of various data of 640 individuals, which had been collected prospectively during the course of the Framingham Osteoarthritis Cohort Study, already in progress for a longer period of time.

The condition of the knee joints in these trial subjects had been extensively evaluated at two different instances, once in the period from 1983-1985 (baseline) and subsequently a second time in the period from 1992-1993. It was determined, among other things, for each knee, whether or not there was evidence of osteoarthritis. At the second evealuation it was determined furthermore to what extent a baseline osteoarthritis, if any, had progressed.

Data about the nutrient intake was present in the form of a food frequency questionnaire, which had been filled in by the participants of the study during the years 1988-1989. Questions had been asked, not only about the daily menu, but also about the vitamin- and mineral-supplement consumption.

Triple risk reduction
In order to study the specific antioxidative effect of vitamin C, vitamin E and beta carotene, the influence of these nutrients was also compared to that of a group of "control" vitamins which were thought not to have antioxidative properties, such as vitamin B1 and folate. In the statistic analysis of the data potential confounders were taken into account, such as age, the degree of physical activity and the total energy intake.

Compared with persons in the lowest tertile of the vitamin-C consumption (an average of 81 mg per day), both for persons in the middle and in the highest tertile (an average of 152 and 430 mg vitamin C per day resp.) a very significant 3-fold reduction in the risk of osteoarthritis progression was found.

This favorable effect of vitamin C was mainly due to a diminished risk of the loss of the joint cartilage, which is possibly related to the fact that vitamin C is not only a powerful antioxidant, but also plays an important part in the synthesis of cartilage collagen. It is worth noting furthermore that individuals with a high vitamin-C intake had a reduced risk of developing knee pain.

A protective effect was also found for vitamin E and beta carotene, but this was less evident and consistent than in the case of vitamin C. On the other hand none of the "control" vitamins showed any significant protective effect.

(Do antioxidant micronutrients protect against the development and progression of knee osteoarthritis?; McAlindon TE et al. (Arthritis Center, Boston University Medical Center, Boston, Massachusetts, 02118, USA); Arthritis & Rheumatism, 39(4):648-656, 1996 April)
http://www.soe.nl/res4engl.htm#Favorable effect on osteoarthritis

[anthropositor]

Thank you, Aloha for starting this important thread.  There is still much to learn and much to debate about when it comes to precisely how much vitamin C is an appropriate amount to use.  My current opinion is, for most people,  the optimum amount is somewhere between three and six grams a day.  I am not holding fast to that opinion.  I will certainly look at new evidence that presents itself, and make adjustments that seem to make sense.  So come on everybody!  Let's hear what you have to say about your experiences with vitamin C!
Anthropositor

[Alexachell2003]

Hi everyone

The problem I have with taking a Viamin C supplement is that you don't know how much you are intaking in the day.  What I mean is I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables in the day, so if I take a supplement on top of that then maybe I am taking too much Vitamin C?  According to the Food Standards Agency, you should get all the Vitamin C you need by eating a varied and balance diet.  They also say we need 40mg a day, yet people take supplements of 1000mg supplements on top of what they get in their diet.  And they say too much Vitamin C can be harmful (but don't say in what way!  Just that it can cause stomach discomfort, diarrheoa and flatulence - so don't take any before you go on a date! ).

Excellent sources of Vitamin C are peppers, broccoli, kiwi fruits, oranges (obviously!), brussel sprouts, strawberries, grapefruit and kiwi fruit.  One kiwi fruit alone has 74mg of Vitamin C in it and they are also packed full of iron.  So maybe instead of taking a supplement we should all have a kiwi fruit a day!

Basically I think you need to be careful about taking a large dose supplement if you already have alot if vitamin C in your diet.  I took 1000mg a day for a few weeks and I always have fruit for my breakfast including grapefruit and often strawberries and I noticed that my urine was BRIGHT yellow in the morning - this is a side effect of too much Vitamin C.  I have taken it down to 500mg now and its slow release as well so you gradually digest it through the day.

There are lots of articles that say Vitamin C helps to fight cancer and heart disease and I believe that to be true.  BUT I think you have to get the main part of the Vitamin C from your food, not a supplement.  The food that is full of Vitamin C is also full of other antitoxidants such as iron, Vitamin A and zinc which are also essential ingrediants in a healthy life.  The only time I up my vitamin C supplement intake is when I have a cold (it helps to heal the cold quicker).

Basically, I would say try to get the most vitamin C you can in your daily diet, not by taking large quantities of supplements.  This is not the best way to go about it.

xx

[Alohamora]

I don't know how much Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)  you need, but it seems to me that once you start reading about how much most animals make for themselves you realize that it has to be much, much, much, much more than 40mg.

Check the table back in reply #1, animals make, adjusted for body weight, what would be 2,000 to 15,000 mg per day in a human!  The other mammals that do not make their own C are vegetarians that consume tremendous amounts of ascorbic acid in their diets. 

How can a substance that animals create in their bodies in such large amounts be toxic? Yes, there were some studies showing adverse effects from ascorbic acid, but nearly all of those have been soundly refuted by now. And there are many more studies using multi-gram amounts that show no ill effects. 

And why would animals make that much ascorbic acid if there wasn't a biological need for the substance?

When you saturate your body with Vitamin C it will be eliminated in the stool and that's what gives the laxative or possible diarrhea effect.  But the doctors who've given Vit. C clinically for many years say you need to take C at nearly that "bowel tolerance" saturation level to get the most effect from it.

Here's Dr. Cathcart's report on dosing ascorbic acid by "titrating to bowel tolerance"
http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

I've found that by slowly building up the amount of C I take I avoid any real unpleasant effeects and I just get a mild laxative effect.  That happend once to me at 12 grams/day, but more recently, I seem to get to 9 or 10 grams only before I need an extra "bathroom break." 

[Alohamora]

C in Pregnancy

Dr. Klenner says C is good for the mother and the baby

"The simple stress of pregnancy demands supplemental vitamin C. This amount will vary with the individual. The silver nitrate-urine text will simplify these findings. Vitamin C seems especially concerned with mesenchymal tissue. When one considers the demands of the fetus and infant, especially premature babies, it is obvious that high vitamin C intakes are required during pregnancy because this "parasite" will drain available "C" from the mother. Greenblatt[67] reports excellent results following the oral administration of vitamin C in the therapy of habitual abortion. In my own practice I was able to take women who had had as many as five abortions without a successful pregnancy and carry them through two and three uneventful pregnancies with the use of supplemental vitamin C. The German literature is "stacked" with articles recommending high doses of vitamin C during gestation because they believe that this substance is of great benefit in influencing the health of the mother and in preventing infections. The vital contribution of ascorbic acid to the body tissues can be summed up in the formation and maintenance of normal intercellular material, especially in the connective tissue, bones, teeth, and blood vessels. Genetic errors might be prevented if prospective mothers were advised to take 10 or more grams of ascorbic acid daily. It is significant that we found in the simple stress of pregnancy, a normal physiological process, that equivalent requirements paralleled those found in the rat when under stress. Experiments by King et al.[68] have shown that the need for supplemental vitamin C begins with the embryo. "
http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerpaper.html

[Daisey]

Thanks for the info, very interesting


daisey

[Alohamora]

Hi Daisy, I'm glad you're finding this info to be useful.

To find out that one substance might make such a difference in so many areas of health is absolutely amazing.

I found a good site for checking the nutrion values of foods. I didn't realize that peppers and broccoli have more C than oranges!
amount of vitamin C in vegetables
http://nutritiondata.com/foods-011101000000000000000-w.html
amount of C in Fruits and fruit juices
http://nutritiondata.com/foods-009101000000000000000-w.html

[trueskin]

alohamora,

thanks for all the vitamin C info...so funny, i just posted a vitamin c question on another site related to topical use on the skin in the form of ascorbic acid.  Any info on that.  Basically I was looking to find out if all products are created equal and how to get that information.  I already know that the product must have less than a 4.0 ph level to be absorbed and I believe its best at a 2.5 and also that our skin can handle no more than 12% ascorbic and no more than 10% around and under the eyes.  Ascorbic acid/Vitamin C cannot reach the skin from just the foods we eat because it gets flushed out hence why it needs to be applied topically.  So I really need to know how to research a product and get the correct info to benefit my skin. 

On all the other info I agree totally on the needs of vitamin C being greater than that of just the food we consume...in a regular diet.  Someone relying on mostly fruits and veggies may be able to obtain a close amount for general health.  I dont everyday so I do take a supplement.  When I am sick I take 500mg every hour.....this is what I can handle so please...dont follow my instructions, choose what is correct for yourselves.  I also take zinc and magnesium w/ vitamin C but not at the same time.  I spread it out....not sure if there is any research to that but those supplements help to support immune functions as well.  Perhaps alohamora can help me on that one???  thanks for all the info....splendid research!!

[itchychick]

This is very interesting indeed.  In general, I take 1200mg/day in the form of  estercized capsules. 

However, what I've really noticed helps me enormously, is taking a huge, mega dose at the very first inkling of a cold coming (that very first bit of scratchiness.)  When this happens, I take between 6000 and 8000 mg, until the scratchiness passes.  I think it has helped me avoid getting very ill with common colds for a few years now (I still get the occasional sinus-type thing, but it generally doesn't slow me down at all). 

[Alohamora]

Trueskin,

We really need a chemist here.

All I know about topical C is what I read on the VItamin C Foundation
http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86

When I tried to make a paste of water and sodium ascorbate it was pretty messy and didn't seem to absorb very well.
The C & aloe vera sounds good, I think I'll give that a try. Aloe Vera is supposed to be good for the skin too and might make a more effective carrier than water.

I know Zinc is supposed to be good for the skin so I take 30mg every day. I have seen it mentioned as necessary for the immune system as well. 

Magnesium is needed along with Vitamin D to insure the proper absorbtion of calcium, so that's another one I take every day.
http://www.healthy.net/asp/templates/article.asp?PageType=Article&ID=541

Selenium is another mineral that's important to the immune system
http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/0,1525,10055,00.html






 

[trueskin]

alohamora, good site!!!  I do agree that we need a chemist.  I have heard that even making up your own mixture jeopardizes oxidation by what it is mixed w/   And that its not really how fast its absorbed by the skin but by the cells to help rebuild the collagen.  And I believe that the difference between ascorbic acid and the palmitate would be that the acid is water soluble and the palmitate is fat soluble.  Someone correct me if I am wrong, please....i am going from memory.  And if thats the case I am really unsure if or how ascorbic acid gets into the cellls??  I should say that I am truly looking into this for the collagen building properties more so than healing but I guess essentially that is the same thing!??  So in any case, whats the best form to take??  I was taking the palmitate orally for awhile...well, until i became pregnant.   And i was taking that because supposedly its fat soluble and makes it to our cells which is of even greater benefit for our entire bodies?

[Alohamora]

This study used only 500mg of C, I wonder if results would improve with higher dosage?


http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm/ID/2833/T/Health/searchtext/
Research: Vitamin C Could Help Lower Body Fat Levels
prohealth.com

04-10-2006

Source: Decision News
Increasing intake of vitamin C improves the body's ability to oxidize fat and can reduce fatigue, said US researchers at this week's Experimental Biology 2006 in San Francisco.

Lead researcher, Professor Carol Johnson, told NutraIngredients.com: œThis is all important because about 30 per cent of Americans have poor vitamin C status as indicated by blood vitamin C concentrations.�

Despite these deficiency statistics, the image of vitamin C supplements with consumers is strong. According to Frost and Sullivan, the US market generated $151.7m (€127.4m) in 2005. In Europe, revenue was calculated at $160.3m (€134.6m) for 2005, and is expected to grow to $192.5m (€161.6m) by 2011.

Bonnie Beezhold and Professor Johnston from Arizona State University presented the results of a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of 20 obese men and women on a low-fat diet. One group's diet was supplemented with a 500 mg vitamin C capsule, while the other group received an identical-looking placebo.

The diet was formulated to provide 67 percent of the US RDA (recommended daily allowance) for vitamin C.

At the beginning of the trial, volunteers with the lowest serum concentrations of vitamin C were found to have the highest body fat mass.

After four weeks, the supplemented group had increased serum concentrations of vitamin C of 30 per cent, while the control (placebo) group's blood levels decreased by 27 per cent.

As vitamin C blood concentrations fell, so did the participants' ability to oxidize fat (an 11 per cent reduction). Interestingly, both groups lost the same amount of weight (4.1 kg, 9 lbs). While body fat mass decreased more in the vitamin C supplemented group, the difference was not statistically significant.

The study supported earier findings by Professor Johnston of a decrease in fat oxidation, and the researchers are now studying whether the impact of vitamin C status is associated with a gradual gain in body fat in non-dieting individuals.

The mechanism behind the vitamin C effect is linked to its essential role in the synthesis of carnitine, an amino acid responsible for the transport of fatty acids.

œCarnitine is important for fat oxidation - and the reduced ablility to oxidize fat creates fatigue and possibly retention of body fat,� explained Johnston.

œSince fatigue is the earliest sign of a vitamin C deficiency, I am particularly interested in documenting this fatigue and whether it has a significant impact in metabolism,� she said.
 

[trueskin]

alohamora, you are such a good investigator.  I am obsessed w/ vitamin c right now.  I really dont take more than 500mg a day because I am pregnant.  I am a big believer in applying it topically as well.  I have tried to find the difference in ester c and vitamin c when applied topically but have found very little.  I am sticking to the vitamin c for now.  thanks for the info.   

[Alohamora]

Trueskin,

How are you using it topically? I can't use aloe vera gel as a base because my pompholx reacts to the stuff. I tried just water & sodium ascorbate but got a white film on my hands so I know it wasn't absorbed well.  Water and ascorbic acid stung.

[trueskin]

alohamora, its L ascorbic acid polypeptide at 12% from uniqueimage.  It does sting a little.  I onlly use it on my face.  And I use a moisturizer on top of it.  The moisturizer I use is a pomegrante moisturizer.  And I alternate a copper peptide at night w/  squalene over that.  I started getting adult acne and having some flaky skin mixed w/ oily so this is the route I have taken after much research.  i dont use aloe externally but when I am not pregnant I do get an aloe drink???  maybe that might help??? 

[Cari2]

Just found this thread - very interesting!  My Dad used to push Vit C from the time I can remember, until he passed away when I was in my late 30's.  I can still hear his voice, when I get a cold - "Take the Vitamin C!!"  Actually I just bought a huge bottle of it from Costco!

Trueskin - where do you find all these topicals??? Pomegranet moisturizer - copper petide - squalene - I've never heard of any of these!?!?